Heel moeilijk om een aantal sterren te geven. Ergens tussen de 3 en de 4, maar waarschijnlijk richting de 4?

Eerste komedie ik (in het Grieks) heb gelezen. In het begin totaal niet grappig, omdat je aan de humor moet wennen, maar op het einde vond ik het enorm leuk :)!

“Then tell me, isn’t it also just for me likewise to be well-intentioned toward you and to beat you, since in fact to be well-intentioned is to beat? For why should *your* body be unchastised by blows, but not mine? And in fact I too was born free. Children weep: does it seem fit to you that a father not weep? *You* will say that it is the law that this is a boy’s work, but *I* would say in return, ‘Old men are children twice.’ And it’s more appropriate for the old to weep than the young, inasmuch as it’s less for them to do wrong...Is it any less allowable for me, too, then, to set down in turn for the future a novel law for sons to beat their fathers in return? As for the blows that we got before the law is set down, we dismiss them, and we give them our past thrashings gratis. Consider the chickens and the other beasts: they defend themselves against their fathers. Yet how do they differ from us, except that they do not write decrees?”

Bardzo się cieszę, że nie muszę oceniać lektur gwiazdkowo. Zawsze było to dla mnie problematyczne. Ciężko ocenić coś, co jest bardzo stare i jest napisane zupełnie innym językiem niż ten, którego aktualnie używamy. Tak samo fakt, że jest to komedia, a mnie raczej tutaj nic nie bawiło. Nie moje klimaty.

"Damn this stupid war! It'll ruin us. I can't even beat my own slaves anymore"

all the good jokes are in the first half smh

2.75/5

Aristotel je za antičke komedije rekao da prikazuju ljude lošijima nego što su u stvarnom životu, dok ih tragedije prikazuju boljima. Ovo je prva antička komedija koju sam pročitao (inače, Oblaci su i najstariji sačuvan dokument u kom se pominje Sokrat), i bolja je od očekivanog. Od Aristofana sam očekivao otprilike mahanje falusima po sceni, a dobio sam humor koji ide od prdenja i podrigivanja, pa do kritike društva u sjajnom duelu "ispravnog i pogrešnog umovanja", u kom, naravno pobeđuje pogrešno, a ispravno umovanje, šta će, beži među glupake, u publiku. Interesantno u tome nije što će u svakom društvu uvek biti više onih koji će da prihvate pogrešno umovanje, već i to da ovde pogrešno umovanje pobeđuje argumentima.

U centru priče je otac koji upisuje sina u filozofsku školu kod Sokrata, gde mali treba da nauči kako da pobedi u svakom argumentu. Cilj? Da on ne mora da vrati dugove. Sokrat je ovde pod priličnom kritikom, prikazan je mnogo drugačije nego što smo kasnije navikli kod Platona. Zapravo je upravo ono što kasnije on kroz dijaloge tvrdi da nije i ono što žestoko kritikuje. Sokrat nije ništa napisao, pa je zato teže pratiti njegov razvoj, ali oni koji su pokušali da ga isprate, smatraju da se negde u vreme prikazivanja ove komedije, kod njega desio priličan obrt, kroz koji Sokrat postaje onakvim kakvim ga znamo.

A funny play on morality and sophistry. A lot more fart jokes than I would have expected from this time period

Sigh. I think I'm in the minority here, but for the most part, I just don't find Aristophanes funny. I found myself reading over passages thinking, Okay, I should be laughing, but probably ended up looking like this the entire time:


That is all.

Lektura, strasznie dziwna i nic nie zrozumiałam. :/

ο γνωστός κλασικός διαχρονικός Αριστοφάνης, για το πώς κάποια πράγματα μπορεί να σου γυρίσουν τούμπα, με εκπληκτικό debate ανάμεσα στο δίκαιο και τον άδικο λόγο, αναδεικνύοντας τα χαρακτηριστικά της ανθρώπινης φύσης!

This was a very pleasant surprise. Not only did this deliver on being a very amusing read, but it gave me real insight into the political and philosophical climate of Classical Greece in a way that I didn't expect. It was also a surprise seeing how the chorus behaved in Aristophanes's comedy versus all of the ancient tragedies I've read. It's so interesting that the version we have now is the revised and never performed version, especially as so much of what the chorus does is speak to the audience about the competition the play is being performed in (which of course didn't happen). There were a few instances where it seemed certain elements were counterintuitive in the dialogue, perhaps that is meant to add to the satire, or perhaps it is simply the unfinished nature of the piece. Either way, it was highly enjoyable, and The Frogs has definitely moved up my tbr list.

Never have I hated the socratic method more <3

توصیه میکنم نسخه صوتی این اثر رو پیدا کنید و بشنوید.
می‌تونه در کنار تاثیر احتمالی که خوندن خود کتاب روی شما داره، بخصوص اگر طرفدار سقراط و فلسفه‌ی یونان هستید، شمارو بسیار هم بخنداند