Children of Dune

There are two opinions one could have about this series and they both are true because it´s so highly individual and polarizing:

If it could have been a bit less complicated and confusing it would have had the potential to be as good as the first two parts, but the characters are talking so much over the top complicated philosophical, religious, Dune specific stuff that it´s truly hard to follow. It just doesn´t work as well as in the first two parts. There was much potential, but it didn´t feel right.

Another one could say that what is said is deep, full of innuendos, pretty many plot twists are interwoven and Herbert is trying to make it bombastic, which works great. But I am more on the critics' side.

There´s a bit of a problem with characters´ motivation, credibility, and authenticity too, as they don´t seem to follow completely logical reasoning and don´t really know what they want. Possibly I am overlooking some of the subtility and it´s part of a perfectly orchestrated subtility, but subjectively it felt as if their premises switched drastically between one and three times without understandable reasons.

I´ve heard some people say that one should just read the trilogy and don´t read further because the other parts are average and worse and I don´t know what to do now. I see what Herberts´ problem is, writing so complicated and arcane that it can be a pain to follow the plot, but on the other hand it´s great, complex storytelling and the audience is very divided about it. I fear that it could get in the direction of pseudo-philosophical and unsatisfying, but some say that the elements that made the series great are even deepening and becoming more grandiose with each part because there are more and more innuendos and connotations to the other parts before.


That the mind control, possession, split personality, body horror, element didn´t take off is a pity. It started so great, some of the best chapters were about it and then it didn´t really play a big role in the rest of the story anymore. I was waiting for it to become a driving force, expand, possess others too, possibly physically manifest with any kind of spice magic, but no, nothing, a perfectly established storyline was wasted and instead 100 more pages were filled with monologues and vague prophecies.


Tropes show how literature is conceptualized and created and which mixture of elements makes works and genres unique:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...

Το τρίτο μέρος ενός μνημειώδους έργου της ΕΦ, αλλά και ολόκληρης της λογοτεχνίας του φανταστικού. Αν αποζητάτε ένα βιβλίο (ή μια σειρά βιβλίων, στην προκείμενη περίπτωση) που να αποτελεί νοητική πρόκληση, να είναι γραμμένο με μεράκι, με όραμα, με φαντασία, αλλά και να είναι εγνωσμένης λογοτεχνικής αξίας, είστε στο σωστό σημείο!
Κατά τη γνώμη μου, εξαιρετικό.

این جلد نویسنده انگار گرفتار یه تله‌ی زیاده گویی و بیش از حد فلسفه بافی شده بود! رو مرز شعاری بودن راه می‌رفت قشنگ. سه تا کتابه داریم این داستان رو دنبال میکنیم پس متوجه نکته و پیام داستان و هشدارهاش شدیم دیگه وقتشه به اصل داستان پرداخته بشه!! کلی از فصل هاش فقط دیالوگ های طولانی و بدون انتها بودن که اصلا پلات رو جلو نمیبردن و شخصیت پردازی هم که تقریباً وجود نداره. دو قلوهای پاول صرفاً حضور دارن و هیچ حس خاصی نسبت بهشون نداشتم. جسیکا رو مخه استیلگار رو مخه ونسیسیا و دوستان تبعیدی هم یه حضور ریزی دارن اما آدم توقع تاثیر بیشتری ازشون داره! بهرحال کتاب تقریباً پونصد صفحس! اما مسیحا با وجود اینکه حجمش نصف این کتاب بود کلی اتفاقات مهمتر توش افتاد و آدم با شخصیت هاش کامل همذات‌پنداری می‌کرد! از پاول گرفته تا سربازی که کور شده! این وسط فقط آلیا خیلی خوب بود که اونم هرکسی از راه می‌رسید ژست خر دانا رو برای این بیچاره می‌گرفت!!!
امیدوارم این کتاب شروع سراشیبی سقوط مجموعه نباشه!

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

- Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear


"I do not have to be what my father was. I do not have to obey my father's rules or even believe everything he believed. It is my strength as a human that I can make my own choices of what to believe and what not to believe, of what to be and what not to be."

- Leto Atreides II
The Harq al-Ada Biography

In Children of Dune, the third entry in Frank Herbert's infamous Dune Chronicles, Emperor Paul Atreides (a.k.a. Muad'Dib) has walked off into the desert after achieving prescience; he is presumed dead. His sister Alia now rules the Imperium. Waiting in the wings to become the next Emperor is the young Leto II, Paul's son. Young Leto II and his sister Ghanima are "pre-born", meaning their personalities were fully formed in the womb. They carry the memories, and, it seems, the personalities, of their entire ancestral line in their minds. This gives them the wisdom and knowledge of many lives and countless centuries, so they are effectively mature adults in the bodies of children.

In this new post-Paul Imperium, Alia's grasp on power is tenuous at best. The mysterious Bene Gesserit continue to plot in the shadows, attempting to maintain their long-developed breeding program, which had seemingly already met its goal of producing a Kwisatz Haderach with Paul Atreides. Can Alia hold on to power? Will Leto II rise to become Emperor? What really happened to Paul Atreides? And who is The Preacher, the mysterious man who has been speaking heresy against Alia's empire and spreading dissent across the galaxy?

There is a lot to like in Children of Dune. It's beautifully, at times lyrically written. It's like reading a work of art in prose. Some of the best Dune characters return in Duncan Idaho, Gurney Halleck, and Stilgar, but there is also an interesting cast of new characters, like Prince Farad'n Corrino, Leto II, and Ghanima. I also really liked the exploration of the ecological transformation of the planet Arrakis (Dune), which in this book is rapidly transforming from an arid desert world into one with rain and vegetation, a transformation that comes with powerful economic and sociological consequences. The ending was also enjoyable, though it left much unanswered.

That being said, I think the Dune Chronicles are starting to wear on me a bit. The books are all basically the same, and it's becoming a bit tiring. Each book is built using a predictable formula of palace intrigue, a confusing plot that raises more questions than it ever answers (even by its conclusion) and that frustratingly keeps the reader always in the dark, the bizarre and futile plotting of the Bene Gesserit witches, which begins to appear more pathetic every book that goes by, power struggles, doubletalk thoughts and ruminations that add no value to the story and are just plain boring, etc.

This particular entry was absolutely filled with doubletalk, or what I call "word soup". Probably about half of this book was made up of these boring, confusing, and seemingly meaningless thoughts and reflections about time, life, consciousness, and other such topics. I normally love a good dialogue about such thought-provoking subjects, but it just didn't work here. Even the characters were confused in this book! There were numerous scenes in the book where a character openly admitted they had no idea what was going on.

As a character in a Dune book, anyone could be your enemy, even your own family members. Everything must be questioned, every assertion doubted. Secret plots abound everywhere, most of which are never explained to the reader, or even understood by the other characters. Sound like fun? Maybe for a few books, but there are six books in the Dune Chronicles, and after a while it becomes a bit tedious. This feels like a classic case of an author stretching something that would have worked really well as one or two books into something that doesn't really work very well as six longer books.

I can't say I'm excited to read the next book in the series at this point, which makes me really sad, because I loved Dune and Dune Messiah. I'll probably put the Dune Chronicles down for a little while, or, perhaps more likely, for a longer while...

3.5 stars

Nihayet bitti...tüketti beni resmen... son 100-150 sayfa iyiydi ama keşke tek kitap olarak kalsaymış.

Dune'un karakterler üzerinden değil de olaylar ve toplumlar üzerinden ilerleyen bir seri olduğunu göz önüne alınca karakterlerle ilgili nefret yorumları falan beni hayrete düşürüyor. Gerçekten empati kuramadığınız, yaptığı hareketin nedenini anlayamadığınız, klişe tabirle "büyük resimde var olduğu parçayı" göremediğiniz bir karakter nasıl olabilir ya? Bir olayı benzer şekilde yaşayan karakterlerin bambaşka başa çıkma şekillerini görüp "E bu neden beceremedi?" demek çok garip geliyor.

Kitapta kullanılan teknoloji beni her seferinde hayrete düşürüyor. Distrans olayı bence inanılmaz zekice düşünülmüş fikirler arasından aklıma gelen ilk şey.

Bu kitabı neredeyse ilk kitap kadar çok sevdim. Herbert'in toplumlara yaklaşımı, zekası ve öngörüsü muazzam. Ama uyarmamda fayda var; Dost Körpe'nin çevirisinden hoşlanmayanlar en çok bu kitapta zorlanacaktır, sağ olsun yine okurken cinnet geçirtti.

4.5/5

تمام طول کتاب با چهره‌ای پر از تعجب ادامه می‌دادم، بین کتاب اول و سوم فرسنگ‌ها فاصله‌ست، انگار دو مجموعه متفاوت می‌خونی، تنها مسئله‌ای که میخوام روشن باشه همین هست که تفاوت در کیفیت نیست، کتاب سوم ملغمه‌ای از بهترین‌های کتاب اول و دوم تلماسه‌ست.

تقریباً نه سال بعد از ماجراهای مسیحای تلماسه و به دنیا آمدن دوقلوهای پل آتریدیز، مهدی جهان تلماسه، به نام‌های لتو و غنیمه می‌گذره، و آلیای در حال حکومت بر کهکشان و آراکیس هست، سیاره‌ای که دیگه به مانند گذشته نیست، شروع تغییرات بوم‌شناختی در سیاره تلماسه و ابرهای سیاه بارونی در حال تغییر زیست‌بوم سیاره تولید کننده ماده باارزش ملانج یا همون ادویه هستند که همزمان با همین اتفاقات ماجراهای سیاسی و از پشت خنجر زدن‌های شخصیت‌های کتاب شروع می‌شه، در همین بین مادر پل آتریدیز بعد از بیست سال به سیاره آراکیس برمیگرده، و به دیدن نوه‌ها و دختر خودش میاد، دختری که دختر سابق نیست، آلیایی که توسط خاطرات بارون هارکونن تسخیر شده و به اعماق تاریکی سقوط کرده.

اتفاقات و ماجراهای سیاسی ادامه پیدا می‌کنند و ما در فرزندان تلماسه بیشتر از اونکه شاهد کتابی علمی‌تخیلی باشیم، شاهد یکدونه تریلر سیاسی، روانشناختی عمیقیم که با نهایت نبوغ آینده دور انسان‌ها و حداقل یکی از سرنوشت‌های احتمالی نژاد انسان رو بررسی می‌کنه.


قبلاً هم گفتم، بازم اضافه می‌کنم، برای من تلماسه همیشه ارزشمندترین متنی هست که حداقل در ادبیات گمانه‌زن با اون مواجه شدم و بالاتر از همه چیز برام قرار میگیره، امیدوارم افرادی بیشتری تلماسه بخونند و از این داستان لذت ببرند.

4.5 pokręcone, ale wyśmienite zarazem. chcę już przeczytać następną część!!!