Više volim Sokrata koji "zna da ne zna" šta se dešava posle smrti, nego ovog, koji pokušava da dokaže nešto nedokazivo. Na mene je ovde najveći utisak ostavio Simija, koji uprkos tome što mu Sokratovi argumenti deluju uverljivo, ne može do kraja da poveruje. Platonovi dijalozi su prezabavni.

Simija: Ni ja, bar po onom što se ovde govorilo, odista ne znam kako da ne verujem. Ali opet, kad pomislim koliko je važno to o čemu se raspravljalo, i kolika je slabost ljudske prirode, primoran sam da u sebi još negujem bezverje o onome što se govorilo.

Este libro me ha fascinado. Es increíble como Sócrates reflexiona sobre la inmortalidad del alma como una liberación donde el alma es completamente libre de vicios y pasiones terrenales y como el griego, sabiendo que morirá pronto, hace una retórica en su lecho de muerte basada en una espera positiva de la muerte debido a su gran vida terrenal llena de sabiduría y templanza. Es una barbaridad la actitud de Sócrates durante toda su obra y la tranquilidad con la que afronta la situación que le sobreviene.

Me encanta la lectura escatológica que tiene sobre el alma y como se hace un juicio ético del alma al acabar la vida según los actos que se han tenido en la vida terrena, cogiendo la idea de justicia tan aclamada en Gorgias y llevándola a un plano escatológico-moral, donde según tus actos tienes una reencarnación en un cuerpo diferente, haciendo que no solo tengas esas consecuencias, sino que la vida cobre un sentido causa-efecto dentro de un ciclo infinito donde el alma inmortal va pasando por diferentes cuerpos perecederos. Sublime y completamente transgresor.

Por último, creo que el desenlace de esta obra es espectacular, con la sentencia aceptada por el griego, dando lugar a una sensación de suicidio donde la muerte se convierte en un anhelo liberador. Sinceramente, la recomiendo muchísimo y creo que es una obra para leerla y releerla.

Al acabarla me ha dado una sensación física espectacular ya que es sensible al igual que esperanzadora. Es una barbaridad, me ha dejado sin palabras y con pelos de punta. 10/10

Tulburător..

"O Kriton, wir sind dem Asklepios einen Hahn schuldig, entrichtet ihm den, und versäumt es ja nicht."

A beautiful dialogue, one of Plato's most poetic. it’s the last day of Socrates, he decides to drink the poison and obey his country, his friends around him, and they talk about the immortality of the soul, investigating the question from different angles.

there’s nothing I can ‘review’ from a canonical text of course, but I wonder what Derrida would say and how he’d read it (which I’m sure he did write about in some way or another), especially about the words and little signs which Derrida could analyze endlessly.

I am mostly annoyed at how unmoving Socrates ordeal is dealt with. This dialogue falls quite short with respect to its predecessors - Apology and Crito. Plato tediously explains death, after death, soul and man's perpetual search for immortality. The narration is bleak, which isn't unexpected but makes Socrates irritatingly opaque.

A very readable and reliable translation from Brann, Kalkavage and Salem. Terms are translated consistently, and the glossary is a useful guide to understanding both the etymology of the words translated and the ways in which Plato uses the terms, as well as related terms. (Explaining in a succinct way the relation and differences between Being [ousia], beings [ta onta], the Forms [eide], and "looks" [idea] is not easy, and here it is necessarily over-simplified, but the glossary entry can be helpful when applied in context.)

The introductory essay is very good as well, and can be read on its own (after having read the dialogue) or as a mini-commentary while reading the dialogue itself.

Phaedo is more than just philosophy, so it deserves a translation as mindful of the narrative as it is of the technical aspects. The final scene, in which Socrates dies, is one of the most powerful in western literature and this translation does it justice.

I’m definitely too stupid for this

Oh he dead dead.

Upd. 3-раз прочитав, на цей раз вголос

Upd. 2-й раз переслухав і розумію, що наявної глибини вистачить, щоб ще багато разів занурюватися в даний діалог

Про безсмертя душі і опис смерті Сократа

107cd
«Якщо душа безсмертна, то вона вимагає піклування не лише на оцей відтинок часу, який називаємо життям, а й на всі часи. А якщо хтось не дбає про свою душу, то він наражає її на велику небезпеку. Справді-бо, якби смерть означала кінець усього, то це була б дорогоцінна знахідка для поганих людей: вмираючи, вони позбувалися б і тіла, і своєї порочності разом із душею. Але тепер, коли зʼясувалось, що душа безсмертна, то для неї немає, либонь, іншого захистку й порятунку від бід, крім цього одного: стати по змозі якнайкращою і найрозумнішою.»

Phaedo is the final part of Plato's (427-347 BCE) trilogy about the trial and death of his teacher, Socrates (469-399 BCE), and is preceded by the Apology and Crito . The Apology is a riveting account of Socrates' defense against the charges, his reaction to the verdict, and then his reaction to the sentence. Crito is a moving account of his reaction to an opportunity to escape his sentence. (I've written reviews for these in GR, if you're curious.) In this dialogue Plato has a young friend of Socrates, Phaedo, recount to acquaintances what happened in the final hours of Socrates' life, surrounded by friends and family and philosophizing up until the final draught of poison. Potentially, Phaedo could have been at least as moving as Crito .

However, in my view this potential was wasted in a most regrettable manner. Once again, as in Crito , Plato was not present at the event described. Though the conversation in Crito had to be, either partially or wholly, Plato's invention, it stayed true to the reports made about Socrates' manner and thought by Plato himself and other authors, such as Xenophon. But in this dialogue Socrates is largely Plato's sock puppet in a rather transparent and, to my mind, unacceptable manner. This ventriloquism even strikes me as disrespectful.

By all other reports, including Plato's, Socrates refused metaphysical and physical speculation, preferring instead to occupy himself and his collaborators (as he claimed to see them) with ethics and politics. But in this dialogue Plato has Socrates waxing eloquent about Plato's metaphysical speculations concerning ideal forms. Moreover, in the Apology , written relatively soon after Socrates' death, when Socrates speaks about death he considers only two options: (1) complete annihilation and (2) the standard ancient Greek view of all the dead gathered together in Hades, a bleak and somber place where family and old friends can be together eternally, if not joyfully. But in this dialogue Plato has Socrates "proving" the immortality of the soul and talking about souls of the dead returning in the newly born. Also damaging to the credibility of Phaedo is the fact that the chain of "certainly", "true", "of course", blah blah, responses of Socrates' listeners to Plato's words is more than just faintly ridiculous ( Crito is not entirely free of this). What a shame.

So, is there something positive to say about this dialogue? Well, if you are interested in Plato's body-and-pleasure-rejecting idealism, his views on ideal forms, the immortality of the soul, as well as why death is a good thing for a philosopher - most of which became sources of Christian theology - then all these find what is said to be their clearest expression in Phaedo .

Plato: But you don't think any of those things are positive.

Me: True

Plato: Even an unfortunate like yourself can recognize something positive to be said about my work.

Me: Certainly.

Plato (waits with brows raised and arms crossed)

Me: ---

Plato: Well?

Me: OK, but it wasn't the tedious sophistry concerning the existence of degrees of the soul.

Plato: Surely.

Me: And it wasn't the total rubbish about all knowledge being the recollection of an earlier, noncorporeal contact with ideals.

Plato: Quite so.

Me: My ears have always had a kind of wistful predisposition to perk up at your idea that the souls of the dead are recycled in the newly born. But I know you need that to get your crazy theory of knowledge to work.

Plato: Very true.

Me (eying Plato warily): I suppose I must put my cards on the table.

Plato: That is quite true.

Me: You should have cut everything between Crito passing along the message from the prison attendant and the stroking of Phaedo's hair. You could have saved that rubbish and put it in someone else's mouth in another dialogue. Then the Christians could still have gotten what they wanted and the spotlight in this dialogue could have been focused on Socrates' calm nobility during his last day on Earth, which is where it should have been.

Plato: What you say has a wonderful truth in it, Steve.

Me: Thanks for the props, man. And give me a buzz if you need some help with the next one.

(Re-read in Benjamin Jowett's translation.)

Forgotten surprise to stow away for later: Socrates is said in this dialogue to have written poetry in prison! And, once again, this was done at the behest of a vision in a dream.

«A mí también, y en contra de mi voluntad, caíanme las lágrimas a raudales, de manera tal que, cubriéndome el rostro, lloré por mí mismo, pues ciertamente no era por aquél por quien lloraba, sino por mi propia desventura, al haber sido privado de tal amigo»

Hermoso libro aprendí más sobre el maravilloso y encantador poder de la amistad que sobre las cuestiones metafísicas y ontológicas relativas a la inmortalidad del alma