The First Philosophers: The Presocratics and Sophists

The fragments and testimonia are acceptable, yet by their very nature, they are repetitive and incomplete.

I discovered that Waterfield's expostulations were dumbing down the content to an excessive degree and undervaluing the fragments that he had spent months translating.

It would be advisable to read each chapter in reverse order. First, read the philosopher(s)'s fragments, and then go back and read what Waterfield has to say about them. This approach allows for a more independent exploration of the original material before being influenced by Waterfield's interpretations. By doing so, readers can form their own initial impressions and then compare them with Waterfield's analysis. This way, a more comprehensive and nuanced understanding of the philosopher's ideas can be achieved.

Moreover, reading the fragments first can also help to identify any gaps or areas of confusion that may be clarified by Waterfield's explanations. Overall, this reverse reading order can enhance the reading experience and lead to a deeper appreciation of the philosophical works being studied.

It is truly so amazing to read and fathom this.

It is almost unimaginable that these ancient people already had knowledge about our monumental discoveries of today.

This realization makes us seem rather dim witted and limited in our knowledge.

We often pride ourselves on our modern advancements and scientific breakthroughs, but when we look back and see that the ancients had an understanding of certain things that we have only recently uncovered, it is humbling.

It makes us question how much more they might have known that we are still yet to discover.

Perhaps we have much to learn from their wisdom and insights.

Maybe our perception of our own intelligence and knowledge needs to be reevaluated in light of these astonishing revelations.

It is a fascinating topic that continues to intrigue and challenge us.

I am quite satisfied with this book.

It has a perfect length, not being too long to cause fatigue nor too short to lack substance. Moreover, there is a good balance among fragments, testimonia, and commentary.

The Presocratic and Sophist philosophy itself is extremely interesting. I am well aware that when I reach the study of Plato and Aristotle, I will be referring back to certain parts of this book.

However, it can get annoying to encounter some incorrect physics and bad argumentation at times. But I suppose it is necessary to include these aspects in an overview of these thinkers and the questions they raised and provided answers for.

This book serves as a valuable resource that not only presents the fascinating ideas of the Presocratic and Sophist philosophers but also offers a comprehensive understanding of the historical context and the development of philosophical thought.

It allows readers to explore the roots of Western philosophy and gain insights into the intellectual journey that led to the great works of Plato and Aristotle.

Despite the few drawbacks, the overall quality and significance of this book make it a must-read for anyone interested in the history of philosophy.

This is a great collection of fragments from the pre-Socratics and sophists.

It is especially useful when one is trying to obtain a view of the latter that is divorced from Plato.

The helpful introductions to each thinker provide historical and academic context, as well as information about the fragments and schools of thought.

It is truly fascinating to witness the evolution of a philosophical tradition through the line of philosophers.

This collection is highly recommended for anyone who finds this subject matter interesting or desires to understand what the philosophic tradition into which Socrates and Plato were born was like.

It offers valuable insights and a comprehensive look at the early development of philosophy, allowing readers to gain a deeper appreciation for the ideas and thinkers that came before the well-known Socratic and Platonic traditions.

Whether you are a student of philosophy or simply someone with an interest in the history of ideas, this collection is sure to provide engaging and thought-provoking reading.

Originally proposed as a book for a philosophy group I'm in (but was immediately rejected), I discovered this book to be incredibly comprehensive and enjoyable as a treatise on the emergence of metaphysics in conjunction with humans' evolutionary growth.

How astonishing our minds are. I frequently take for granted all that has been sifted through the thousands of years of human intellectual and metaphysical progress. What's remarkable is how Waterford tracks how humans learned about the world around them through quasi-mystical'science' via the observable sensory details. Then, it progresses towards why those observed objects/beings exist and how they exist, to how they attempted to understand their place in the world as a result of these observations, to explaining purpose (and not always towards virtuous behavior [see late Sophists]), and most importantly, the growing awareness of virtue that would ultimately lay the foundations for Socrates and the emergence of Western Philosophy. It's truly remarkable.

It's true that these are only fragments as nothing exists in its entirety in textual format, but I didn't find this to be a significant obstacle. Waterford, in his extensive research, has done a great deal of work for us: he has gathered every scrap of textual and tangential evidence reference for the reader. While he does summarize the evidence, he also provides the reader with the ability to question him and his analysis: you can literally conduct reference work through his interpretation, his inserted fragments, or refer to other texts that he has painstakingly cited for you.

My inner research enthusiast loves this.

The most enlightening philosophers for me are:

Parmenides: For his observations on truth, appearance, the senses, and an attempt to explain the whole.

Zeno: For his paradoxes that will eventually lead to the power of rhetoric.

Protagoras: For a real, comprehensive analysis of the importance of words and their meanings.

Gorgias: For bringing up the paradox of 'being' and 'not-being'.

Hippias: For the amusing exchange between Socrates and him, reminding me of Mr Bennett's and Mr Collin's discussion on compliments.

To call this book a translation is a bit misleading.

To be sure, there are translations to be found here. But the general gist of a translation is that there is a bit of introductory material that helps explain the context of a work and then the reader has the chance to read the translated material and come to one's own conclusions. This book, it must be admitted, does not have that tendency that one is used to seeing. Instead, every single section of this book--and there are a lot of sections here--has a somewhat heavy-handed introduction, sometimes as long as the translated material. These introductions try to frame how the philosopher in question should be viewed. Then many of the translated materials themselves are not writings from the thinkers themselves but quotations of the writer as cited by others, along with how the writer was evaluated and viewed by other writers.

The result is that one barely gets a chance to see the material of these ancient writers except beneath layers of interpretation. This prevents the reader from getting to know these first philosophers at all, and that is a great shame, to the extent that they are worth getting to know.

This book is more than 300 pages long and is divided into two large parts with numerous smaller elements. It begins with a preface and acknowledgements, followed by an introduction, a select bibliography, a note on the texts, and a timeline of the thinkers included. After nearly 50 unnumbered pages of this material, the book proper begins with an exploration of the pre-Socratic philosophers who survive, often barely, in the historical record. This part includes a look at the Milesians Thales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes, Xenophanes, Heraclitus, Parmenides, Zeno, Melissus, Pythagoras and his school, Anaxagoras, Empedocles, the atomists, and Diogenes.

The second part of the book discusses the sophists, namely Protagoras, Gorgias, Prodicus, Hippias, Anitphon, Thrasymachus, Euthydemus and Dionysodorus. Each discussion contains three parts: an introduction expressing the translator/editor's own view of each philosopher and his work, translations of fragments and writings from others that discuss and evaluate the philosopher, and then sources. After that, the author discusses the Double Arguments and various anonymous and miscellaneous texts before the book ends with explanatory and textual notes, a concordance with Diels/Kranz, and an index of translated passages.

And that is an open question. Is it worth getting to know the first philosophers? The translator/editor obviously thinks so. If he views the presocratic philosophers as generally having the wrong answers, he appreciates their agnosticism and the questions they ask about the earth. It is similarly clear that the author appreciates the political aspects of the sophists and seems also to want to defend the ethical interests of some of the philosophers lumped into that school. All of this invites the question from the reader as to whether a sophist with ethical concerns and an appreciation of moral development from philosophical learning is really a sophist at all. Even as a reader with a certain degree of skepticism about the approach of most of these philosophers, it is clear that some of them are well worth knowing at times for the content of their thinking (Heraclitus, for example), and some for the questions they brought up (Zeno, for example). However, it is rare when a philosopher here has a moral perspective worth appreciating. There are a few, and those are to be treasured, but even here it depends on how one interprets their fragmentary thinking, whether kindly or not.

Classic philosophy is truly fascinating.

If you have an inclination towards it, it can be a great source of knowledge and inspiration.

I read this particular work for a class, and to my surprise, I found the content extremely interesting.

The author/translator has done an excellent job.

Before delving into the actual content from the ancient Greeks, they summarize each chapter and section, which is very helpful.

Moreover, they provide a great introduction that lays out the purpose and direction of the whole book.

The book compares the ideas of the Presocratics and the Sophists.

It not only presents fragments from the original source text but also summarizes it for the readers.

Furthermore, it clearly tells you the similarities and differences between each individual and the two groups.

Overall, it is a very well-written and well-structured book, making it a great choice for those who are interested in these ideas or studying them for a class.

It offers valuable insights into the world of ancient Greek philosophy and is definitely worth reading.

An excellent and truly intriguing account of the early development of western thought is presented here.

There is a remarkable balance struck between the original writings, secondary sources, and the incisive commentary by the translator.

While I can fathom the reason for including the numerous recounts of ancients attempting to fathom the mysteries of the universe, such as the slightly varied versions of layer upon layer of fire, water, and so on with the earth at the center, and even one fellow casually suggesting the existence of multiverses, these accounts did, however, become rather tedious quite rapidly.

Thankfully, my boy Antiphon seems to have a better understanding of what's going on.

Perhaps his insights can offer a refreshing perspective and help us cut through the clutter of these ancient speculations to gain a more profound understanding of the evolution of western thought.

It will be interesting to see how his ideas compare and contrast with those of his contemporaries and how they might contribute to our modern-day understanding of the subject.

Overall, this account provides a valuable resource for anyone interested in delving into the rich tapestry of western intellectual history.