The Platonic dialogue "Symposium" starts out sounding like a manifesto for NAMBLA then becomes a foofaraw in which the literal and the metaphorical are purposely conflated for rhetorical advantage before finally getting to a half-dozen pages of fairly interesting philosophizing and then degrading into a stroke fest extolling the virtues of Socrates.

The Phaedrus would be awesome if they didn't talk about rhetoric for a million years at the end. Also, I know it was more than 2000 years ago, but it's hard to fully get over the old man / teenage boy dynamic going on. In my opinion, the book itself criticized this "norm" in many ways, but I'm not gonna write a paper on it in the goodreads comment section... Though, somewhat tempted to?

ah, the populated and one-sided dialogues of plato .... wanted to read again of the ladder of love: you start off being physically attracted to one other beautiful body .. but then, you think why just be attracted to one body? why not be attracted to them all? ... but then, you will come to see that beauty is even more perfectly situated in the soul rather than the body. once you have become attracted to physical beauty, next you will be attracted to beautiful souls and will fall in love with beautiful souls, perhaps neglecting to see the physical. gradually you ascend this ladder which will lead you ever further and further away from particular humans in their bodies towards ever more abstract objects of desire. you start to fall in love with the arts, sciences, laws, cultures, ideas .. and finally, revealed to you at the top of the ladder is this transcendent vision of the form of beauty itself .. and there, with that vision, life will be truly livable, if life is livable anywhere... to clarify, if you are in love with one beautiful person or soul, you are enslaved to them, you're trapped. they could die, they could leave you, they could stop loving you .. it's a painful, transitory, vulnerable existence... but, the form of beauty is always going to be there for you ... and yet, interestingly enough, it's never going to love you back. the form of beauty is perfect and has no need of your love, it's a one way experience. so we have to ask ourselves then, is this still a state of being in love?

EL BANQUETE: me encantó aunque no estoy de acuerdo con la mayoría de cosas expuestas skadhkas además me reí un rato con alguna intervención.
Anyways, el final es digno de un fanfic de ao3

Platón, y dos bellos "diálogos" sobre el amor y la belleza. Plásticamente preciosos, hay que profundizar en su lectura...

Since I have the privilege of teaching a class again this fall, I thought to my self, "Self, what better time to teach one of the best kept secrets of narrative art in the western world?" The Symposium becomes vibrant when it is treated not as a work of philosophy or--even worse--political philosophy, but as a story, twice told, twice partly forgotten, in which the speeches weave in and out of one another as only good table-talk does. Framed by the comical beginning (with Aristodemus believing that the wisdom of Socrates can be gained through mimicry) and the darkly humorous end (with Alcibiades raging about the one love he has never had, and foreshadowing the farce of Syracuse in the process), the love of philosophy is made a means to an end. The chief irony of this reading, of course, is that Plato himself becomes that poetic figure that he would have banished from his own Utopia--a pagan Moses standing on the height of Pisgah, never to enter the world of wisdom of which he dreamed.

"I'm pretty much going to say whatever I need to say to get you to side with me that having an intimate relationship with a minor is okay....okay?"

Probablement le livre le plus gay que j’ai lu de l’année.
La préface de gargantua c’est exactement le panégyrique d’Alcibiade à Socrate.
Apparemment Socrate était un tombeur et les hétéros viennent d’humains androgynes ?

Pas sûre que ça me serve en dissertation :(

Written For School:

“Love is born into every human being; it calls back the halves of our original nature together; it tries to make one out of two and heal the wound of human nature.”
― Plato, The Symposium

Summary:
tThe Symposium and Phaedrus explore the concept of love in a simultaneously philosophical and unpretentiously honest way. In both translations Plato’s passion for exploring the topic and his reverence for his teacher Socrates. The Symposium follows a light-natured competition to give the best speech dedicated to the Greek god of love, Eros. The text explores the many definitions of love, the impact it can have on men, and the perils of less derivative definitions. Phaedrus is a dialogue between Socrates and Phaedrus, an Athenian aristocrat. The pervasive theme of love extends throughout the text, but their dialogue also explores the concept of reincarnation, the constructs of the human soul, and the art of rhetoric.

Author:

Plato is considered one of the most important figures of western philosophy. Taught by Socrates, he was able to contemplate complex ideas of politics and philosophy, a gift that he passed on to his student Aristotle. Not much is known about Plato’s early life, but we do know that he was born into a family of aristocrats with three siblings. He was said to be eager to learn and work hard in his studies, so he was likely trained by the most prestigious teachers of his time. Plato would go on to found The Academy just outside of Athens. In 375 BC Plato wrote and compiled his masterful Socratic dialogue entitled The Republic.

Observations:

The Symposium:
tThis is perhaps the best [and most natural] example of Plato using a Socratic Dialogue, a style he mastered throughout 35 works. The Symposium takes place at the dinner table in a friendly contest, thus, unlike a piece like The Republic, its conversations feel unforced and unpretentious. Each speaker provides a passionate speech dedicated to love, but as usual, Plato focuses the most on the words of Socrates. Unlike the other speakers, Socrates supposes that love is not a god, but instead a force between god and man that connects them and everything else in the universe.

Phaedrus:
tLike The Symposium, Phaedrus centers around a few speeches on the topic of love. The central characters are Socrates and the young Athenian aristocrat Phaedrus. Throughout the dialogue, the two have several disagreements that ultimately lead to constructive realizations. To me, the most striking part of this dialogue is the way Socrates changes his mind [while crossing the river] thanks to Phaedrus before giving another speech. Besides love, Phaedrus also discusses madness, the soul, the madness of love, and rhetorical devices. The most powerful [or at least iconic] section of Phaedrus is Plato’s “Chariot Allegory”. In this allegory, the charioteer [the driver] embodies intellect and the human mind. One horse represents man’s rational passions and the other represents irrational impulses. The charioteer’s job is to steer the two in the same direction without letting the swerve in different directions.

Conclusion:
tThe Symposium and Phaedrus are significant milestones in Greek philosophy and humanity’s understanding of love. Each offers equally valuable knowledge and insight that will leave the reader with a more diverse view on love as well as speech and Socratic dialogue. I would recommend these books to anyone with an interest in philosophy or morals and reasons for love.

Pretty good

Very accessible translation, which still retains the beauty of the work. Good introduction, raising the appropriate questions without overwhelming a new reader. The notes at the end of the book are adequate for the everyman reader.

wonderful, 2000 years ago everything already said about love, death, friendshiop or even the internet (via the discussion of writing)