Community Reviews

Rating(3.9 / 5.0, 99 votes)
5 stars
31(31%)
4 stars
32(32%)
3 stars
36(36%)
2 stars
0(0%)
1 stars
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99 reviews
July 15,2025
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My own aim in this book was to create a simple and practical moral calculus which would make it clear when it was acceptable to kill, how many could be killed and so forth -- coldblooded enough, you will say, but life cannot evade death. This statement by William Vollmann in his work Rising Up and Rising Down, p291, sets the tone for what is to come. I feel a bit crazy by taking on this endeavor, but having recently finished a couple of Vollmann's longer novels, Europe Central and The Dying Grass: A Novel of the Nez Perce War, I was seduced by his mind and his writing. I was especially captured by his humanity.


I've owned a copy of Rising Up and Rising Down for years, but have seen this set of books appreciate faster than my 401(k). So, I decided to check out copies from the library. However, not many libraries carried this locally and it appears universities aren't very friendly with lending to mere local libraries. Thus, I engaged a friend who works at ASU to check out copies for me. So far, for me, this has been ideal.


Volume 1: Meditations/Introduction/Definitions is basically a framework and introduction. In many ways, just starting from the Table of Contents, this book reminds me of four books: Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Frazer's The Golden Bough, Montaigne's The Complete Essays, but especially Burton's The Anatomy of Melancholy. Funny enough, part of the reason I put off reading this book till now is I am fairly close (200 pages) to finishing Burton's massive 3-part exploration of all things sad. I think, properly, Vollmann is doing here with Violence what Burton did with Melancholy. EXCEPT. Except, that Vollmann, by his own explanation is trying to feel out through information, experience, data, visual aesthetics, etc., the moral equation surrounding violence. When is it justified? By who? For what? This is not a book you breeze through. The subject and depth should dissuade anyone who isn't a huge Vollmann fan, a masochist (Vol 4), or interested in 3k pages peering into the sometimes dark corners of humanity. Perhaps, I own a bit of both. We shall see.


One final note >> It was fascinating to see Vollmann reference the Unabomber two times (maybe three?) in this first volume. This is interesting since just a couple years ago it came out in an essay by Vollmann for Harpers that for years the FBI thought Vollmann might BE the Unabomber.

July 15,2025
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4.5 rounded up to 5.

This work is truly staggering in many parts. It presents ideas and concepts that are mind-boggling and make one stop and think.

In other areas, it can feel like a slog, perhaps due to the complexity of the subject matter or the density of the writing.

However, what stands out is the author's highly self-aware nature. He is not afraid to challenge his own arguments, which adds a layer of credibility and depth to the work.

Some parts of his moral framework regarding when violence is or isn't justified are particularly thought-provoking and will likely stay with me for a long time.

I find myself kinda wishing I could get my hands on the full 3,500 page version. I'm sure there is a wealth of additional information and insights that would further enhance my understanding of the topic.

Overall, despite its flaws, this work has left a lasting impression on me and has sparked my interest in exploring these ideas further.
July 15,2025
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I have been threatening to read William Vollmann’s “Rising Up and Rising Down” for the past eight months or so. However, I had very little free time for recreational reading. [p]After all, reading a dense tome about violence might not be everyone's idea of recreation. But during my long Christmas vacation, I dedicated a significant amount of time to getting through some of the 705 pages of the abridged version. [p]This version was culled from a seven-volume edition published by McSweeneys. While there were a few sections in the first part of the book that were truly thought-provoking, I have to admit that I was thoroughly disappointed overall. [p]This is the first William Vollmann book I have read. Something about his prolixity and showy polymathy always bothered me when I casually picked up his volumes at bookstores. [p]Usually, it was “The Atlas,” the cover of which should win an award for always inspiring me to pick it up and flip through it. [p]For now, I will postpone a more contentious conversation about writers who exhibit a particularly odious strain of red-blooded-straight-white-male privilege. [p]My worst fears were realized in “Rising Up and Rising Down.” I don't doubt the sincerity of his conviction or his desire to understand violence and its causes. [p]But he often seemed more interested in imitating the style and organization of a musty ethics treatise or a patronizing professor holding court in the faculty club than in actually processing the mountain of historical notes, narratives, case studies, and epigrams he has collected. [p]The recurring theme of false-modest apologies for the text's failings to achieve certain goals was especially annoying, as they seemed designed to prevent criticism while ostensibly opening the work up to critique. [p]I didn't end up finishing “Rising Up and Rising Down” because the second half of the abridged version consists of field reports from distant areas of violence. [p]The fragmented interviews and descriptions are, I assume, meant to engage the reader with Vollmann’s “moral calculus,” which in turn attempts to analyze violence and justification in the (tedious) format of an outlined and indexed treatise. [p]But more often than not, the effect is scattered and unfocused, and they often just show that William Vollmann is quite pleased with having put himself in harm's way to experience danger firsthand. [p]Perhaps, in different circumstances, I might have been more lenient with the book, overlooked its stylistic excesses, and tried to extract meaning from it. [p]But as it stands now, I found it more frustrating than anything else. [p]
July 15,2025
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Voluble Vollmann embarked on an ambitious project, penning seven volumes dedicated to the complex and often harrowing subject of violence. Subsequently, he condensed his extensive work into this 700-page book.

The first half of the book delves into theories of violence. It serves as a worthy alternative to Steve Pinker's The Better Angels of Our Nature, which, despite being another rather lengthy tome, cheerily contends that violence is on the decline. However, Pinker achieves this by downplaying significant aspects such as colonialism, Hitler, violence against women, and violence against other species. In contrast, Vollmann is refreshingly open, willing to admit the existence of atrocity, confusion, and helplessness. Moreover, I believe Vollmann doesn't frequently adopt the condescending tone that Pinker sometimes does.

The second half of Vollmann's book is rich in content, yet I read it with a sense of unease. Vollmann dedicates hundreds of pages to describing his moral calculus, and still, I find myself not entirely trusting him, especially when it comes to the way he views women and people of color. There's a creeping suspicion: what exactly is this white man up to?

Nevertheless, I do think there is value in passages like the one about the war zone. In this excerpt, Vollmann vividly描绘s a scene at the Restaran Splendid. It's not yet six o'clock, and men are sitting at a table amidst the preordained echoes, uttering the word "Sarajevo." Meanwhile, a small boy runs back and forth, creating new echoes that reverberate all the way to the toilet where the toilet queen and her daughter await someone to use the facilities and pay them. The radio chatters on with an anxious tone, similar to the tightness behind your eyes when you haven't slept. Then, it plays country music, and the mirror becomes filmed with stale cigarette smoke. Vollmann astutely observes that based on these indications alone, he might not have known that what newscasters term a "tragedy" was unfolding. This only serves to prove either his own stupidity or the fact that tragedies often have a limited impact, affecting only themselves. As he points out, novelists and journalists who write about such foreboding circumstances too often follow the lead of cinema directors, instructing the composer to create an ominous musical score to ensure the audience "gets it." This passage offers a unique and thought-provoking perspective on the nature of violence and its portrayal in various forms of media.
July 15,2025
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Rising Up and Rising Down is a comprehensive and profound work by William T. Vollmann.

It delves into the complex questions of violence, its justifications, and its consequences.

The book begins with a slim volume of introductions that sets the stage for the exploration ahead.

Vollmann's uncompromising vision of death takes the reader on a journey through different settings, from the Paris Catacombs to a war-ruined hospital in former Yugoslavia.

He examines the aesthetics and morality of weapons and the rights and obligations of the individual.

The theoretical component of the work includes volumes II, III, and IV, which explore the various justifications for violence, such as defense of honor, class, authority, and more.

These sections are deeply referential and sometimes discursive, presenting a wide range of historical and contemporary examples.

Following the theory is the praxis sections, divided by region, which depict Vollmann's career as a conflict journalist.

He travels to different parts of the world, witnessing and documenting the realities of war, revolution, and social conflict.

His experiences in Southeast Asia, Africa, the Muslim World, North America, South America, and Europe provide a vivid and detailed picture of the human condition.

The final section of the praxis-based journalism is often neglected by reviewers but is perhaps the most prescient.

It includes three case studies that seem to prefigure the future, such as the merging of class and race in Japan and the rise of populist politics in the United States.

The work ends with Vollmann's attempt to understand the magic and mystery of New Orleans voodoo and Santería, adding a phantasmagorical quality to the exploration of means and ends.

Overall, Rising Up and Rising Down is a remarkable work that challenges the reader to think deeply about the nature of violence and our role as moral actors in a complex and often violent world.
July 15,2025
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The moral calculus was an arduous task, and the case studies were a little less so. The latter seemed to go on for too long.

However, most of the remaining part of the book was fascinating in a way that I can't fully express. This is not only a good thing for reading, but also may explain why we can't simply create neat categories or make judgments about violence and be done with it.

Perhaps it's because violence is such a complex and multi-faceted issue that it defies easy classification. It can take many different forms, from physical aggression to psychological abuse, and can occur in a variety of settings, from the home to the battlefield.

Moreover, the causes and consequences of violence are often intertwined and difficult to disentangle. Understanding violence requires a deep exploration of the human psyche, as well as an examination of the social, cultural, and political factors that contribute to its occurrence.

In conclusion, while the moral calculus and case studies in the book were challenging, the overall exploration of violence was both fascinating and thought-provoking. It made me realize that there are no easy answers when it comes to understanding and addressing this complex issue.
July 15,2025
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I'm not really certain about how to evaluate this.

I'm conscious that it's an abridgment of a seven-book series. Perhaps, if I had been able to peruse the entire work, I might have had a greater appreciation for it.

As it is currently presented, this is essentially one individual's perspective on when and why violence is or isn't justifiable, supported by historical illustrations.

I suppose what I was anticipating was an examination of violence as a phenomenon, rather than everything else aside from violence as a phenomenon.

Although it makes for an interesting read, it wasn't especially beneficial for my specific purposes.

(It is, however, interesting to note that Vollman, who is also a novelist, was capable of描绘 scenarios and acts of violence in such a way as to render them almost enjoyable to read. Particularly, the sections based on his own experiences possess this quality.)

Overall, while the text has its merits in presenting a particular view on violence, it didn't quite meet my expectations in terms of a comprehensive exploration of the phenomenon.
July 15,2025
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Ambition is a powerful driving force that can push us to achieve great things. In my case, it is represented by a particular book that I have set my sights on reading.

I estimate that it will take me at least a good month to read this book, and that's reading very slowly. Just by taking a look at the title page on Amazon, one can understand why. This is a version that has been reduced from 8 volumes to 1, which still contains a wealth of information and ideas.

For now, I have had to give up on reading it due to other commitments and priorities. However, I fully intend to come back to it in the future. When I do, I will write more about my progress and thoughts on the book.

I firmly believe that with ambition and determination, I will be able to complete this reading challenge and gain valuable insights and knowledge along the way.
July 15,2025
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Full admission:

I have to admit that I haven't been able to complete this book. However, what I have managed to get through has been truly astonishing.

It is one of the greatest books I have ever had the pleasure of reading. The bullet-pointed Moral Calculus within it is simply outstanding and deserves five stars on its own merit.

In fact, just the first three points in the Moral Calculus, namely "What Is the Best Way to Seek the Truth?", "How to Form a Moral Code", and "Variations of the Golden Rule", are so remarkable that they deserve something even greater than five stars.

Once again, I cannot emphasize enough how stunning this book is. It will undoubtedly remain a constant fixture on my bookshelf, a source of inspiration and wisdom for years to come.
July 15,2025
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The single volume abridged edition published by Ecco

is a remarkable work. It offers a condensed yet comprehensive version of a larger piece of literature. This edition is designed to provide readers with a more accessible and quicker way to engage with the content.

The abridgment process involves carefully selecting and condensing the most important elements of the original text. This ensures that the essence and key themes are preserved while reducing the overall length.

Ecco, as the publisher, is known for its high-quality publications. The single volume abridged edition is no exception. It is likely to have been produced with great attention to detail, including proper formatting, clear typography, and a well-designed cover.

Whether you are a busy reader who wants to quickly explore a new work or someone who simply prefers a more concise reading experience, the single volume abridged edition published by Ecco could be a great choice. It allows you to enjoy the essence of the original work in a more manageable format.
July 15,2025
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Vollmann is truly a genius. His profound and all-encompassing knowledge spans across various fields such as history, philosophy, psychology, and spirituality. This, when combined with his remarkable gift for writing, results in a brilliant and erudite exploration. It delves into every aspect of humanity's habits and reasons for violence throughout history. The book is immensely enjoyable, captivating the reader from start to finish. It offers valuable insights and perspectives that make one think deeply about the complex nature of human behavior. However, I do wish I could get my hands on the unabridged version. I'm sure it would provide an even more in-depth and comprehensive understanding of the subject matter.

July 15,2025
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This, the unabridged version of the seven-volume work, was truly daunting enough. Vollmann embarks on a profound exploration of violence and violent uprising throughout modern history.

Some of the events he witnessed firsthand, such as in Sarajevo, Afghanistan, and Jamaica. In these places, he experienced the raw reality of violence and its impact on people's lives.

Others, he views through the lens of history, particularly focusing on the party purges and gulags of Stalin and Trotsky. These historical events serve as a backdrop to understand the complex nature of violence and power.

The piece on Sarajevo had the most profound effect on me. The author vividly described a place on the back of his head that he constantly felt a sniper was going to draw a bead on. This description creates a sense of palpable fear and vulnerability, making the reader truly understand the terror that笼罩ed the city during that time.

Vollmann's work is a powerful and thought-provoking examination of violence and its place in our world.
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