Community Reviews

Rating(3.9 / 5.0, 99 votes)
5 stars
31(31%)
4 stars
32(32%)
3 stars
36(36%)
2 stars
0(0%)
1 stars
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99 reviews
July 15,2025
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Sprawling is truly one of the most common book cliches. However, this 7-volume set actually lives up to the term. It is not only ambitious but also incredibly fascinating.

I must admit that I have never come across anything quite like it before. Its very publication can be considered a small miracle. The way it constantly zooms in on the trees, or rather, the leaves, and then zooms back out to show the entire forest can be quite dizzying.

Now, I find myself extremely curious about what was left out in the abridgement. It makes me wonder if there are hidden gems and details that were sacrificed in the process of condensing this extensive work.

I can't help but imagine all the possible subplots, character developments, and intricate descriptions that might have been omitted. It's both exciting and a little frustrating to think about what I might have missed.

Nonetheless, this curiosity only adds to the allure of the original 7-volume set and makes me eager to explore it further.
July 15,2025
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Oh god, this truly blew my mind.

It is amazingly funny, especially considering the subject matter at hand. The introduction, in which Vollman specifically talks about how he did it for the money, is simply delightful.

It's quite a contrast to have such a light and humorous tone in a 700-page treatise that delves into how miserable humanity is in general.

One would expect a serious and somber exploration of the topic, but Vollman manages to inject a sense of wit and charm that keeps the reader engaged from start to finish.

It makes you wonder if perhaps he is using humor as a way to cope with the harsh realities he is presenting, or if he simply has a unique perspective on the human condition.

Either way, it's a refreshing and unexpected take on a rather沉重的 subject.
July 15,2025
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**"Rising Up and Rising Down": A Comprehensive Analysis**

"Rising Up and Rising Down" is often compared to Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire." This comparison holds some merit as both are extensive, multi-volume works. Vollmann's opus, a 3300-page behemoth written over twenty years, began in 1982 when he journeyed to Afghanistan. His initial experience there, documented in "An Afghanistan Picture Show," was the starting point of this ambitious project. The work was more or less completed by 1997, but it was Dave Eggers' heroic decision to publish it in 2003 that brought it to the public eye. However, the copy-editing was unfortunately inadequate.



The book is divided into two main parts: "Justifications" (volumes II - IV) and "Studies in Consequences" (volumes V and VI). In "Justifications," Vollmann examines when violence may or may not be justified in defense of various principles and interests. He engages with historical characters like Lincoln, Trotsky, Caesar, and Napoleon to explore these topics. The "Studies in Consequences" section, on the other hand, showcases Vollmann the journalist. He conducts case studies without directly applying his Moral Calculus but rather seeking to understand the moral calculi of his subjects.



Vollmann's Moral Calculus is a complex and detailed framework. It includes principles such as the Empath's Golden Rule, the First Law of Violent Action, and specific rights of the self. He also lists several conditions under which violence may be justified, such as in legitimate self-defense, defense of individual rights, and defense of self-respect. However, he is cautious about justifiability, stating that when one commits violence, it is more likely to be unjustified than justified.



Despite its flaws, "Rising Up and Rising Down" is a significant work. It offers a unique perspective on violence and morality, and it challenges readers to think deeply about these issues. The abridged edition, while making the work more accessible, unfortunately obscures some of the narrative and argumentative threads. However, it does have the advantage of making at least some of Vollmann's ideas widely available. For those who are truly interested in exploring this work in-depth, the unabridged version is essential. It is a challenging read, but one that rewards careful study.



Rising Up and Rising Down is a work that has the potential to have a profound impact on its readers. It is a must-read for anyone interested in war, peace, journalism, ethics, philosophy, or simply understanding the complex world we live in.
July 15,2025
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Let me just start by saying that if I were somehow given the authority to make a list of books that people "had" to read, Rising Up and Rising Down would be on that list.

Now, I imagine the majority of people would be angry at me for assigning such an oversized, overwrought book. But I swear it's worth it. Of course, that promise doesn't tell you much. So, I'm going to do what I never normally do and summarize a bit.

Rising Up and Rising Down is really a lot more specific than its subtitle would lead you to believe. It's an exercise in trying to determine or uncover a "moral calculus" which would help one decide when it would be appropriate to use violence. The assumption other authors might make here would be "violence is at least sometimes appropriate." But Vollmann isn't content with that low level of rigor. He takes it upon himself to prove that complete nonviolence, in the style of Gandhi, is not the best approach for the everyman. Of course, it's a pretty inductive/speculative proof, consisting basically in saying Gandhi would have been totally screwed had he been facing the Reich instead of the raj--Hitler probably would have been okay just killing him and all of his followers. But it does make intuitive sense; humans certainly aren't hardwired for nonviolence, so probably only Gandhi and Jesus and maybe Martin Luther King Jr. would have trouble with Vollmann's stance on this.

Then he goes on through a series of historical figures and tries to interpret or imagine their moral calculus, if they have one. The abridgment has pretty substantial sections on Napoleon, Julius Caesar, Abraham Lincoln (which is particularly good), the Marquis de Sade, and a handful of others. I assume the unabridged version has many, many more. This exercise is relatively effective, especially for figures closer in history to our own time, like Lincoln, who actually comes out looking pretty good.

After that, Vollmann brings together his moral calculus, which takes the form of an outline giving various defenses and justifications for violence. He reminds us that this is only what he's come up with, and according to our own beliefs, our moral calculus may be, and maybe should be, different. But he's been so reasonable this whole time that it's hard to take any issue with his calculus, which I'd think would work well for just about any American--the degree to which our political systems influence our individual beliefs leads me to think that Vollmann's highly individualistic calculus may not work so well in other countries.

Everything after this point could arguably be called a failure, as far as what the book's original aim supposedly was. What we expect here is Vollmann going from country to country doing "case studies"--basically observing violence and trying to determine whether said violence is justified or not. These case studies comprise the bulk of the unabridged version's length, whereas they're only a few hundred pages (!) in the abridgment. So I feel a little uneasy calling the little piece of them that I saw a failure, except for the fact that I absolutely do not mean it in a bad way.

Here's what I mean by failure. Vollmann says early on that he is going to withhold his judgment on whether what he observes is justified or not, in favor of letting the reader apply the moral calculus. But I suspect the real reason he withholds his judgment in most of these cases is the same reason that I do: it's impossible to know enough about what's going on in most of these places to make an informed judgment. And, as an outsider twice removed, I, the reader, would feel incredibly arrogant were I to make that judgment.

If you went to a country in the guise (half-truthful, I guess) of a journalist, a country where you suspected a certain group of people were being oppressed, how could you find out whether they really were or not? First of all, it's dangerous where you are; for all you know, if you go around asking too many questions, you may end up dead. You most likely won't be able to distinguish the different ethnic groups creating the tensions, so talking to the wrong people could be a problem. So you do what Vollmann does, and hire a prostitute to be your tour guide. But here's the thing: who's going to talk to you? Whatever they're afraid of is definitely more powerful than you (the journalist) are, so what do they stand to gain by telling you about their problems? Nothing, of course, and they have their life to lose.

This is basically what seems to happen to Vollmann when he goes to Thailand; nobody's willing to tell him the things he most wants to know. Sometimes they tell him exactly the opposite, which could invalidate the testimonies of the few honest and fearless (or stupid) people he runs into who do tell him things. He wanders around the country on the vaguest of hunches, trying to find capital-T Truth, and failing.

And this, by the way, is one of the really commendable things about Vollmann. There are plenty of people who are willing to go to great and dangerous lengths to find Truth, but they usually don't do it without some assurance that Truth will be there, at the end, waiting for them. Vollmann, on the other hand, is smart enough to be pretty sure he's never going to find Truth, but he goes anyway. Thus why he sits starving in a foxhole in Sarajevo for weeks, getting shot at every time he tries to leave the place, and obtaining no greater justification for the violence than a Bosnian's testimony that "Serbs are evil." The main thing he finds out on his extensive peregrinations is that most of the people who are actively engaged in violence are not exercising a very complex moral calculus. But can you blame them? Moral calculus is a luxury most of them can't afford. And Vollmann, being a reasonable guy, doesn't blame them either.

So what these supposed case studies turn out to be is just a series of really heartbreaking vignettes, showing poverty, violence, hatred, etc. etc. ad literal naus. Yes, Vollmann's motives and his execution are both commendable, but is he really helping anyone? It seems, at least from the abridgment (I hate having to keep mentioning that I read the short version, but it's necessary), that he is not, aside from the relief and/or vindication people may feel at the fact that an American journalist is taking interest in them to a point where he's willing to brave their conditions. So the takeaway point, although I'm not sure he ever comes right out and says this, is that it's really hard to apply your moral calculus to violence that's being perpetrated by others, since you can never know all the factors. You can only apply it to your own potential acts of violence--this is where it's most useful.

Long story short, and I know I've been saying this a lot lately, but read this book. The abridgment seems to be a lot easier to find, and cheaper to buy, and is plenty long already, and nobody except a really hardcore Vollmann fan is going to give you trouble for it. And if you like it, you'll want to get and read the unabridged version anyway.




*Because it is big, whether you've got the abridgment or not.

**There's not much evidence in the book that Vollmann's native female companions in these countries are actually prostitutes, but if they were, it'd be a smart move. Who else knows a lot about the country in question, can go anywhere and talk to anyone, and (probably) won't kill you in your sleep?

***Thousands of pages devoted to this stuff, in the unabridged version, remember.
July 15,2025
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I'd give the book 5 stars for ambition.

This is an 800-page abridgement of a seven-volume, 3500-page work on violence and its possible justifications. Vollmann illustrates all the "justifications" he can think of by discussing historical events and people. For example, he mentions Stalin, Trotsky, Pol Pot, Napoleon, Gandhi, Lincoln, and John Brown.

He also uses people and places from his travels in Africa, Europe, North America, and Asia to talk about current rationales for violence. His intention is to create a comprehensive "moral calculus" to determine when violent means are acceptable. He aims to create some type of rational framework for understanding when an individual or state should take up arms.

While it's a hell of an attempt, and certainly thought-provoking, I don't think the "moral calculus" adds much to the philosophy of violence. However, as a document of history and current events, it's fascinating. It provides a unique perspective on the complex and often controversial topic of violence, and encourages readers to think deeply about the justifications and consequences of using force.

Overall, this book is a must-read for anyone interested in history, politics, or philosophy, and is sure to spark lively discussions and debates.
July 15,2025
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I made the choice to read this abridged version of the original work. The prose, at times, has a tendency to be self-indulgent. Even in this condensed form, it can seem long-winded while lacking in substance. However, there are also some passages that possess poetic beauty. For example, the exploration of the French catacombs early in the book is quite captivating.

Crouched somewhere between the realms of philosophy, memoir, and fiction, it is a great read with a very modern sentiment and style. It is evident that Vollmann was influenced by Proust in his construction.

The book poses important questions and delves into potential answers in an interesting manner. If the summary on the jacket managed to pique your interest, rest assured that the book will not disappoint. It offers a unique blend of different literary elements that keep the reader engaged from start to finish.

July 15,2025
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Nearly impossible to read - it took me about a year - but oh so rewarding if you do. This book is truly a gem. It is full of astounding and provocative thoughts and ideas that will make you think deeply about life. The author has bolstered these ideas with an incredible amount of history and research, making it a truly comprehensive and engaging read.


It deals with one of the most fundamental issues of life on this planet, and as you read, you will experience a wide range of emotions. I laughed, I cried, I was terrified and scared, and I was also amused and amazed. It is truly an incredible read that will stay with you long after you have finished it.


I would never dare actually recommend it to anyone, as it is not an easy read. However, if you are willing to put in the time and effort, it is one of the greatest things you will ever read. It will expand your mind and change the way you look at the world.

July 15,2025
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280 pages into the abridged edition of this opus, I find myself completely drained.

It's as if I've embarked on a hike along a trail that was boggy from the very start.

But as I progress, it seems to get increasingly muddier.

My boots sink deeper and deeper into the muck, and the effort of lifting them tires my leg muscles to the point where I can no longer take another step.

However, unlike being stuck in the middle of a swamp, I have the luxury of simply putting the book down.

I don't have to search for a dry space or a tree limb to rest on until I can find my way back along the trail.

This doesn't mean that the book is without merit.

Vollmann's writing is undoubtedly brilliant, and his ideas are valuable.

It's the excessiveness that has worn me down, and this is in the abridged edition no less.

The overabundance, randomness, and repetition, along with the wandering nature of his mind, even within a highly organized structure, have made it a challenging read.

My attempts to skim and extract what I wanted were constantly thwarted by the stories, thoughts, and quotations.

I would have liked to have read the entire book, and perhaps one day I will return and finish it, even if it takes multiple attempts to do so.
July 15,2025
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I really need to find a personal copy of this book to have enough time to read it carefully.

Every time I read the borrowed one from the library, I always feel rushed.

I don't like that feeling at all.

With my own copy, I can read it at my own pace, take my time to understand every word and sentence.

I can also mark the important parts and make notes.

Moreover, I can read it again and again whenever I want.

I believe that having a personal copy will enhance my reading experience and help me gain more from this book.

So, I'm determined to look for a copy of my own as soon as possible.

July 15,2025
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**A Comprehensive Analysis of William Vollmann's Work**

William Vollmann's work is a complex and multifaceted exploration of various themes. His writing is not only rich in content but also thought-provoking, challenging readers to consider different perspectives on morality, violence, and the human condition.



A Lot of Kisses Carla Bolte's description of Vollmann as a sweetheart and the idea that each letter of his words is like a little kiss adds a touch of warmth and humanity to his work. It shows that there is more to Vollmann than just his intellectual pursuits.



Tales of Morality and Imagined Nations Vollmann's long-standing interest in whores as a subject matter is explored in-depth. While some may find this topic controversial, it is clear that Vollmann is using it as a means to examine the intersection of philosophy, morality, politics, and law. His work "RURD" delves into these issues, particularly at the level of violence and killing.



The Modus Operandi "RURD" is divided into three sections, with Vollmann first inducting abstract principles from historic figures, building a moral calculus, and then presenting journalistic studies of violence around the world. The use of historical figures to develop his propositions is an interesting approach, although some may question the validity of the induction process.



Exemplary Historical Figures The historical figures Vollmann uses are of major contemporary interest, but his focus on developing abstract propositions sometimes overshadows their individual stories. A more detailed exploration of each figure could have provided a more comprehensive understanding of his work.



The Moral Calculus The moral calculus is a list of abstract propositions and exceptions. While it is intended to guide moral agents, some may find it too detailed and complex. Simplifying the equations and inferring lower principles from higher ones could make the calculus more accessible and practical.



Flaws in the Calculus Vollmann himself recognizes the flaws in his calculus and invites readers to come up with their own versions or correct his flaws. This openness to criticism and improvement is a sign of a true intellectual, and it encourages readers to engage with his work on a deeper level.



The Moral Foundations of Criminal Law Vollmann's work on the moral foundations of criminal law is an important contribution to the field. His examination of the legal treatment of violence and the relationship between moral principles and legislation is both timely and relevant. However, his omission of any reference to Penal or Criminal Codes in his research is a notable oversight.



Domestic Crimes of State Vollmann's proposals on domestic crimes of state are particularly interesting, as they raise important questions about the right to rise up against an incumbent government and the justifications for violence in revolutionary situations. His work challenges us to think about the role of the state and the rights of its citizens in times of political upheaval.



International Crimes of State On the international front, Vollmann's work examines the rights and wrongs of one nation invading another, supporting rebels or revolutionaries, and engaging in regime change. His call for a moral calculus that applies equally to all nations is a noble one, but it remains to be seen whether such a calculus can be developed and implemented in practice.



Judge for Yourself The third section of Vollmann's work consists of journalistic studies of violent hotspots around the world. While these studies are well-written, they may not be as successful in achieving their intended purpose of helping readers apply the moral calculus. A better integration of these studies into the overall work could have made them more effective.



Suggestions for the Intimidated For those who are intimidated by Vollmann's work, there are several ways to approach it. Reading the moral calculus itself or Vollmann's thoughts on specific historical figures such as the Marquis de Sade can provide a starting point. Additionally, his writing style, while complex, is also engaging and rewarding for those who are willing to invest the time and effort.



In conclusion, William Vollmann's work is a significant contribution to the fields of literature, philosophy, and law. His exploration of morality, violence, and the human condition is both challenging and thought-provoking, and it encourages readers to engage with these issues on a deeper level. While his work may not be perfect, it is a valuable resource for those who are interested in understanding the complex and often controversial issues that shape our world.

July 15,2025
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I have another soft spot in my heart for Vollmann. His works always seem to have a unique charm that attracts me deeply. That's why I decided to buy the 7-volume set of "Rising Up and Rising Down."

Since I got this set of books, it has truly become the best purchase of my life. Each volume is filled with Vollmann's profound insights and vivid descriptions. The stories and ideas presented in these books have opened up a whole new world for me.

I find myself constantly immersed in the pages, exploring the various themes and concepts that Vollmann presents. His writing style is both engaging and thought-provoking, making it a pleasure to read.

The 7-volume set of "Rising Up and Rising Down" is not just a collection of books; it is a journey of discovery and enlightenment. I am truly grateful to have made this purchase and look forward to many more hours of enjoyment and learning from Vollmann's works.
July 15,2025
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I have to admit that I only read the 800-page abridgment of a 3500-page book.

It's quite a feat to even get through the abridgment, but I do hope that one day I might have the patience and dedication to read the full, hefty volume.

The question of when violence is justified is a complex and profound one. We could ask historical figures like Julius Caesar, who used military might to expand his empire.

Or Abraham Lincoln, who led the country through a civil war to preserve the Union.

John Brown, too, was willing to take up arms in the fight against slavery.

Trotsky was involved in revolutionary activities.

And Ted Nugent, a controversial figure, has his own views on the matter.

Alternatively, one could spend a whopping 23 years writing a book about this very subject.

That would truly be a remarkable and perhaps even brilliant endeavor.

It makes one wonder about the different perspectives and insights that could be gained from such a comprehensive exploration.

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