12/4/2016
What I've read is marvelous, but my present mindset does not provide suitable ground for this to flourish. Not when severing the union seems like the perfect solution to irreconcilable differences.

Party hatred by its deadly poison blinds the Eyes and envenoms the heart. It is fatal to the integrity of the moral Character. It sees not that wisdom dwells with moderation, and that firmness of conduct is seldom united with outrageous voilence [i.e., violence] of sentiment.
- Abigail Adams

--If only it were a party. It's the people.

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Buddy read with Ran and Diane



Schedule:
July 24, pp. 263-280; 290-338.
How grief opens doors and softens hearts. The death of Mary was unsurprising as the catalyst for reconciliation.

July 31, pp. 339-394.
Aug 7, 395-456.
Aug 14, 559-614

What a unique look at the men who helped form this nation! What an amazing friendship, to have survived political adversity and time and distance. I find it fascinating that so much of their correspondence survived and their heirs and friends took the time to compile their writings to make this volume possible.

One of my favorite time periods of American history to read about is the Revolutionary-Post Revolutionary War era. Naturally, I enjoy studying about Washington, Adams, and Jefferson. We are fortunate to have such a complete correspondence between two such brilliant, influential patriots in our history. I did not enjoy it as much as I enjoyed the letters between John and Abigail Adams. The beginning letters between Adams and Jefferson were, as a whole, more about business. Which, is perfectly understandable and at times can have some fascinating aspects, but it does not have quite the same draw. I think a lot of people are more drawn to the later letters, when both were retired and reconciling/reconciled their friendship. Adams might be my favorite president to study, though there is a considerable amount I disagree with him (particularly his view of religion. The same would be said of Jefferson). A lot of people would find this book dry and I will not lie, there are dry letters in here. But again, to be able to appreciate these two men's exchanges between one another (and some between Jefferson and Abigail as well), is a wonderful gift to fans of history. I do think you have to be a fan of Adams and/or Jefferson to truly appreciate this book. It is not as exciting as McCullough's bio on John Adams (which is one of my favorite bios I have read in general). We do not get as much insight as Malone's 6 part series on Jefferson. But, if you fall into the niche, I think you will want this in your collection. Even if to pursue or read occasionally, you will find interest in it.

These men were of the most brilliant to ever walk on this continent.

Only one word......EXCELLENT !

This is a fundamental piece of literature for anyone seeking to understand the motives, attitudes, fears, and intentions of our founding fathers and their actions. Adams sought a strong federal republic, and Jefferson was fearful of a Federal government with too much power. These letters span over fifty years of their dialogue on revolution, founding a nation, and then watching the "experiment" grow. Their back-and-forths are as relevant today as they were when they were written. I wish that people toting "the founding fathers" in their political rhetoric today would read these exchanges, and they would better understand that disagreement about the roles and responsibilities of government have ALWAYS been the subject of great disagreement. The founding fathers never could agree on anything, and yet they still found compromise.

The Adams-Jefferson correspondence is an unparalleled education in life, friendship, politics, revolutionary America, religion, and philosophy.

With over 50+ years of letters between John Adams (and Abigail Adams) and Thomas Jefferson, their relationship is on full display. Both the good and the bad.

I highly recommend to anyone who wants to better appreciate their relationship and that time period.

My thought is it’s Best to read the correspondence in sections.

Fascinating, in-depth, and compelling. Loads and loads of correspondence between two of the most important of the founding fathers. Their letters in the 18th century are interesting but sort of practical and perfunctory, and then their estrangement after their vitriolic presidential campaigns concluding with the heart of their correspondence after their reconciliation which covers the most rich and intellectually stimulating letters. Their more philosophical stuff towards the end is decidedly the most important (esp. right now), but the reconciliation is also extremely interesting showing the almost tragicomic process of a friendship deteriorating, and the herculean effort required to patch things up. All in all very worth while read.

A fantastic collection of the entire correspondence between some of the greatest people of American history. A thoroughly engaging and enlightening experience, permitting one an intimate view into the hearts and lives of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. I highly recommend it!

Mid-December was approaching and I had reached my Reading Challenge goal for 2024 with a few books to spare and my TBR shelf was pretty thin. I feared starting the New Year with an empty TBR shelf so until I could get to a bookstore and do some serious shopping I needed an alternative and not reading wasn't it. I resorted to my dustier bookshelves and found this book. Actually this book has been haunting me for years, a lot of years. I admit to being intimidated by the book's size and weight and I could just never bring myself to start reading it. I think my disgust with the character of the incoming president motivated me to pull this tome from the shelf and start reading about a couple of real Americans. Maybe reading about John Adams and Thomas Jefferson would help me forget about what the next 4 years will be like for us. I started reading.

I suppose it would be best to start with the warnings. This book is not for the casual reader of history as this is not a casual book. It is 614 pages of text and about as close to original historical source material as the average reader is likely ever to get. The book contains the letters of two of our Founders, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, both of whom were 18th century men. While both of them were probably better educated than most of the Founders you will be surprised at the spelling and punctuation errors, at least errors by 21st century standards. Further, their use of language is very formal which was probably typical of their time. These facts will make reading their letters difficult at times but not impossible. You may have to read things more slowly and more than once to be sure you understand what is being communicated but you can succeed if persistent. Now for the book and its content.

As I stated the book is 614 pages of text and holding it in your lap while reading will probably reduce the circulation in your leg so I recommend an artificial support for the book while reading. The book is organized into 13 chapters but all the letters are in chronological order. The editor begins each chapter with a few pages giving an overview of the letters in the chapter as well as some helpful historical background for the period the letters cover. The first 265 pages are primarily letters written by these two men to each other or to Abigail Adams while they were ambassadors to England and France. These pages can be skipped if you are so inclined as they dealt mostly with negotiating trade relationships, Barbary piracy, and Abigail trading shopping lists with Jefferson in Paris and then the two of them attempting to reconcile the differing coinage in order to determine who owes who and how much. There was also a great deal of discussion about finances of the new republic and their attempts to secure loans to keep the U.S. afloat. These two men were probably to the two hardest working men in American government at this time and singlehandedly kept the lights lit at home and in their embassies.

While I wouldn't blame anybody for skipping those first 265 pages and beginning the book at Chapter 8 I will state what I found interesting there. Adams was 8 years older than Jefferson and Adams had been an early member of the independence movement while Jefferson came later and was a less active member. Yet I was amazed at how closely they worked together during their time in Europe. They were the only two representatives of the U.S. in Europe at this time with Adams assigned to London and Jefferson to Paris. Neither of them did anything without consulting the other and while Jefferson would have willingly deferred to Adams as the senior representative Adams never regarded Jefferson as anything but an equal and reliable partner. Their working relationship was more that of co-ambassadors to Europe instead of individual representatives to specific countries. What made this even more astounding for me was what I knew was going to happen between them in the coming years and why. I have said several times in reviews of other histories involving Jefferson that I consider him our first sleazy president for the way he treated Adams running up to the election of 1800. That treatment and the rupture of this friendship is dealt with and that begins at Chapter 8. Nevertheless, it was disheartening to read how deep their friendship and collegiality went and then imagining how painful the perceived betrayal must have been when it was discovered.

The book also includes letters between Abigail Adams and Jefferson both during the time of their residency in Europe and upon their return home. Chapter 8 is actually one that is exclusively devoted to letters between Abigail and Jefferson and starts in 1804. Abigail learns that Jefferson's youngest daughter Polly had died. Polly was the daughter that traveled to Europe as an 8 year old child in the company of 14 year old Sally Hemings. Polly and Sally first landed in London to await further escort to Paris to join Jefferson. During this period Abigail and Polly became very close and this friendship lasted into Polly's adulthood and marriage. Upon learning of this tragedy Abigail felt, regardless of the ill will she had for Jefferson, that she had to reach out extend her sincere condolences to Jefferson. This led to an exchange of letters in which injuries were revealed, explanations and details discovered and harsh opinions modified. In other words Abigail had no desire to open old wounds but Jefferson crossed the line when he mentioned how personal he took Adams' famous Midnight Judicial Appointments at the end of his term. Abigail laid into him for that and then countered with what injury Jefferson was responsible for to Adams. Jefferson explained that he didn't know what the people he had hired were doing. This is where the sleaze is with Jefferson in my opinion. Jefferson always had others doing his dirty work so he always had plausible deniability. This exchange of letters probably satisfied Abigail but John didn't resume contact with Jefferson until about 1812.

Their mutual friend, Dr. Benjamin Rush, was instrumental in getting these two men to forgive and forget in the interests of history. These two men could not die until they finally understood each other. This understanding was achieved through letters spanning nearly 15 years and covered fields of interest that are both curious and engrossing. I was surprised that current events were generally only mentioned in passing. Their correspondence starts in 1812 but that war is hardly mentioned and neither is the Battle of New Orleans or Andrew Jackson. Napoleon is mentioned as are his two exiles but only as a threat to democratic government and the consequences of tyranny. Most of their letters are about philosophy and religion and later, much later, about the aches and pains of aging and their approaching mortality. Many of the letters go on at length citing references to books that none of the readers are likely to be familiar with. Of course Adams is the big offender in this regard and he is also the more prolific correspondent of the two. Adams probably writes 3 letters to Jefferson's one but Jefferson does respond at length to all of John's. This was a sad section to read as these two giants of our history come to grips with death they quietly bury the hurts experienced in their lives and relish the joys of their families and their friendship and what they achieved for the people of this country. We owe these two men and all the Founders a lot more than we have given them. It's a tough book to read but worth the effort. Enjoy.

When I started this book, I assumed I would slog through it, and learn some useful things, and get some enjoyment out of reading these Founding Fathers' own words instead of those of historians. I did not expect it would return to my bookshelf as one of the most beloved books there.

The letters delve deep into the expected — the inner workings of a young democracy, the establishment of a fledgling economic power on the world scene. And yes, there are points of mundane bureaucracy, passages about whale oil, salt fish, loans, insurance. Especially in the early years, much of John Adams' and Jefferson's correspondence was taken up with matters of business.

Yet even within these passages, there are delightful gems, and in Jefferson and Abigail Adams' correspondence, there are far more abundant examples of the mutual friendship and admiration between the Adamses and Jefferson. Their personalities emerge, in a different and generally richer way than they do in even the best history books.

As expected, Jefferson's prose stands out. Were there nothing else of value in the collection, it would be worth a read just to see him pepper even the most mundane topics with bits like calling an ambassador a "torpid uninformed machine," much less the longer passages that show his eloquence was not limited to important documents. But while Adams doesn't achieve the same frequent elegance, his letters are filled with reminders that he was an excellent statesman, and right more often than history gave him credit for (although Jefferson does in later letters).

And then there is a lull in the correspondence, where the history books and the useful, concise chapter introductions of this book must fill in the blanks. The Adamses and Jefferson return to the United States. John Adams and Thomas Jefferson become political rivals, candidates in one of the most bitter election campaigns this country has known, leaders for a generation that agreed on independence, but not what to do after independence was won.

For all the highlighter-worthy lines before this point, the greatness comes when John Adams sends a letter and a package after both are retired, initiating a torrent of letters that lasted until the two men died. Their topics range from education to metaphysics to aristocracy, but Adams' and Jefferson's late-in-life correspondence is far more a story about a seemingly impossible reconciliation. Somehow, both men found the capacity to either forgive, or forget, and a willingness to listen.

"You and I ought not to die, before We have explained ourselves to each other," Adams writes. And they do, tiptoeing sometimes, and always explaining, not attempting to convince.

The politics and the history are there in abundance, but to me, this collection of letters is more about a human drama where the cast of characters are some of the most important names in American history. I've read at least one historian that presented the letters as Adams and Jefferson posing for posterity. They were surely aware that these letters might be published someday, but posing for posterity doesn't account for the clear joy both express in having one great mind to converse with, one friend left from the generation of 1776. Scribbling out these letters with aging hands, they long for an hour of conversation, difficult to imagine in our age of cell phones and jet travel.

These letters combine to tell a story about life, but also a story of death. In later years, facing their own mortality, Adams and Jefferson are unafraid of the topic. Religion, the afterlife, the rights of the next generation to take over. By the time I reached the final letters, the impossible timing of their deaths started to seem less impossible, and I found myself glad that neither had to deal with the loss of his dear correspondent.

Not surprisingly, Jefferson sums it up better than I have managed to in this review:

"A letter from you calls up recollections very dear to my mind. It carries me back to the times when, beset with difficulties and dangers, we were fellow laborers in the same cause, struggling for what is most valuable to man, his right of self-government. Laboring always at the same oar, with some wave ever ahead threatening to overwhelm us and yet passing harmless under our bark we knew not how, we rode through the storm with heart and hand, and made a happy port."

I got a copy as a Christmas gift in 2009. Thse two men are so different, yet both contributed greatly to what our country became. A great resd.