There were three plays in my copy of this. Two of them had rap battles, and the third redeemed itself by having Euripides cosplaying his own characters.

This collection of plays wasn't my first foray into classical literature, nor classical drama, and made me more appreciative of the Greek plays I read in high school. (Yes, y'all, this is why high school English is important and will forever haunt you). I read this as part of Jean'sBookishThoughts YouTube read-along (one of my firsts). I found the plays entertaining and not as hard to understand as I imagined. My Penguin's Classics edition helpfully had a full notes section which provided background information, as I am not a classic scholar (yet!).
The first play in this collection is Wasps, which tells of why one shouldn't put too much faith into politicians, as the father-figure Philocleon has spent his entire life doing. He serves on corrupt juries, which gives him a sense of importance in his community as well as a small paycheck. His fellow jury members are called the wasps, which gives a sense that their constant buzzing drowns out any sense that could possibly bring them back to normality. His obsession with trials and passing judgement somewhat ruins his relationship with his son, Bdelycleon. Bdelycleon goes on a mission to bring his father back to the household and family, even creating a mock trial over the household in an attempt to keep him inside. The play reminded me of the modern disconnect that parents have with their children, including their grown children, during the course of life. Even the ancient Greeks had to deal with generational conflicts.
The second play is Women at the Thesmorphia which pokes fun at the playwright Euripides for his frequent misuse of female characters in his plays. Euripides demonizes women as scorning men at every turn. According to my text, the editor states, "It is worth noting that the purportedly misogynistic Euripides presents his tragic women far more favorably than Aristophanes does his comic women," (72). During the secret conclave at Thesmorphia, in which the women fast, celebrate, and debate while honoring Demeter. The women decide that Euripides must face the consequence of his public actions and must be killed. What follows is name-calling hilarity.
The third play Frogs so named because of the frogs of Hades, which give an ominous mood to the play, also makes fun of other playwrights in a competition of wits and talent in Hades' dominion, judged by Dionysus.
Reading the plays caused me to realize the deficits I have in my reading life, and now I am off to find yet more classical reads so that, in time, I may form some background knowledge to make reading them a bit easier.

I you haven't read any classical Greek plays there is no way you would guess what is in here! It is mad. Aristophanes took the opportunity of State sponsored play production to ridicule everyone, take the piss, mystify and insult. This translation is in quite slangy English, from an earlier era, but still not what you'd expect. I enjoyed it... especially the revelation that in a Comedy all the actors are wearing comedy false penises huge enough to poke out of their tunics.

Read, The Poet and the Women.

Quite a load of childish fun.

For being thousands of years ago written,

it still feels fresh, and retains some of the

inside jokes and plays on words despite translation.

Review of the Oxford edition by Halliwell.

I only bought this to read Clouds, which depicts Sokrates, but I ended up reading Women at the Thesmophoria and Frogs.

The introduction is long and well written.

Some interesting facts:
- There were 2 main theater festivals in Athens: Lenaia and Dionysia.
- The plays happened in the Theater of Dyonisos, on one side of the Acropolis, which at the 5th century BC had capacity for about 5000 spectators (1 or 2 centuries later it would rise to 15000).
- The audience was mostly male.
- All the actors were also male, even if they played a woman character.
- The plays were accompanied by the music of the Aulos, an instrument which probably sounded similar to a pipe.

- Clouds:

Halliwell argues that, unlike some scholars say, Clouds didn't have a significant effect in the accusation of Sokrates. It certainly reinforced the bad reputation of Sokrates and philosophers and sophists in general, but without it, the trial of Sokrates would most likely have happened anyway with the same result.

In Clouds, Aristophanes not only mocks intellectuals, but also the uneducated fools. So he satirizes many different people of different backgrounds, it's not just an attack on Sokrates. Plus, the play came last (third) in the competition where is was done.

As for the play itself, I found it quite boring. I think I would have preferred a prose translation, as the verse makes it harder to understand. Also, there are tons of references to Athenian citizens and contemporary events, so it's very hard to understand.

In addition, I didn't find it very funny. The only 2 jokes that made me smile were:
- A gecko shitting on Sokrates and interrupting his thoughts.
- The personification of "Moral" realizing that almost everyone, including the audience, are wide-arsed (gay) and freaking out.

- Women at the Thesmophoria:

The first half is funny and entertaining. It contains a satire of women's vices and the suspicions of their husbands due to watching Euripides' plays. The second half is boring: it's a satire of different plays by Euripides.

- Frogs

Like the previous, the first half (the journey of Dionysos and his slave to Hades) is entertaining, the second is boring and not understandable unless you know the plays of Euripides and Aischylos.


In conclusion: I've learned some things about Athens in the late 5th century. The plays are boring in general, with some entertaining bits, so I wouldn't say that one is better than another. As for the Clouds, after reading this book I believe it's almost sure that it didn't have a relation to Sokrates' execution. Aristophanes mocked a lot of famous people, like Kleon (who was a very popular demagogue, even after he made a satire about him) and Euripides (who is the butt of the joke in Women at Thesmophoria and Frogs). They didn't have the problems that Sokrates had, so the trial of Sokrates must not be related to his (bad) reputation as an intellectual.

brekekekex koax koax

1. frogs
2. woman at the thesmophoria
3. wasps

This stuff's so bawdy I can't even believe it. Here's a sample:

HERACLES: And what's happened to Agathon?
DIONYSUS: Gone, gone; he too has left me. [He sighs] A good poet; his friends will miss him.
HERACLES: Where has he gone, poor fellow?
DIONYSUS: To the Banquet of the Blessèd. Specially laid on by the King of Macedon.
HERACLES: And what about Xenocles?
DIONYSUS: Oh, Xenocles be hanged.
HERACLES: And Pythangelus?
XANTHIAS: Never a word about little me. And look at my poor shoulder, it'll never be the same again.
HERACLES: But surely there are dozens of these young whipper-snappers churning our tragedies these days: for sheer verbiage, if that's what you want, they leave Euripides standing.
DIONYSUS: Small fry, I assure you, insignificant squeakers and twitterers, like a lot of swallows. A disgrace to their art. If they ever are granted a chorus, what does their offering at the shrine of Tragedy amount to ? One cock of the hind leg and they've pissed themselves dry. You never hear of them again. I defy you to find a really seminal poet among the whole crowd of them: someone who can coin a fine resounding phrase.

Sheesh! Tough guy.

Meanwhile:

ANTICLEON: Why don't you speak? Get on with it!
PROCLEON: He doesn't seem to have anything to say.
ANTICLEON: Thucydides had the same trouble at his trial: sudden attack of paralysis of the jaw. [To Second Dog] All right, stand down: I'll conduct the defense myself.
[He takes Second Dog's place on the 'stand'.]
Gentlemen. Hr'm. It is a difficult undertaking to reply on behalf of a slandered dog, but nevertheless I will try. Hr'm. He is a good dog. He chases away the wolves.
PROCLEON: You mean he's a thief and a conspirator.
ANTICLEON: Not at all, he's the finest dog alive. Capable of guarding any number of sheep.

What claims! We all know lawyers talk this way — politicians too. (Let alone with the "grunts" and mustering of import, while on the stand, or the daïs, or at the microphone — check out those sound effects!!!) But this was written 2400 years ago. Christ.

One senses this sort of thing falls into — and out of — fashion again. By which I mean: plain old simple candor.

Here, let's try again:

PROCLEON: I've gnawed a hole in it; but don't make a sound. We've got to be careful Anticleon doesn't catch us.
LEADER: Don't worry about him! One grunt out of him and we'll give him something to grunt about. We'll make him run for his life. That'll teach him to ride roughshod over the ballot box! — Now, tie that cord to the window, and the other end round yourself, and let yourself down. Be brave! Be a regular Diopeithes!
PROCLEON: Yes, but what am I going to do if they spot me when I'm half-way down and try to haul me back inside?
LEADER: Don't worry, we'll come to the rescue — won't we, boys? 'Hearts of oak are we all, and we'll fight till we fall' . . . They'll never be able to keep you in: we'll show them a thing or two.
PROCLEON: All right.

There we go.

Let's party . . .

Highly recomended.

HIGHLY!!!

-EJB/Orwell (past LIVES), dreamer ...

n  Dreamn . . .

This is my first real review in forever. Yay!! I finally felt inspired enough and not too lazy to share my thoughts.

Frogs was my favorite. Then Wasps. Unfortunately, Women at the Thesmophoria doesn’t make the list.
Frogs had everything you could want, or, at least everything I could want in a play: Dionysus, the underworld, and two well established tragedians, Aeschylus and Euripides, taking shots at each other in death over whose writings are best. Old versus new. Oh, Sophocles and Plato were there too.

The same theme of old vs. new is present in Wasps, where Aristophanes has two generations, a father and son, come to blows over the very real political climate in Athens. Seeing that it’s a comedy, you giggle at the ridiculousness of what’s going on while at the same time recognizing it’s a stand in for Aristophanes’ frustration with a corrupt judicial/governmental system and those economically poor; ignorant people who blindly perpetuate the problem. A quite timely play, unfortunately.

As for Women at the Thesmophoria, I will say I didn’t absolutely hate it, but it was pretty lack luster for me. I won’t say insulting because if you’re reading ancient literature, you probably know there’s going to be misogyny, non-Greeks being referred to as “barbarians," and of course people owning slaves. Although, there was a part towards the end of Act I with the chorus leader and chorus I liked that gave some justice to the plight of women. It's quite long so these are just excerpts:
CHORUS LEADER
Have you heard of a woman who'd steal from the State
to the tune of a million or so,
Then ride in a coach with pockets distended,
Like one politician we know?
CHORUS
Well, you must admit it's true
That it's chiefly among you
That gluttons, thieves and criminals abound.
Have you heard of banditresses,
Let alone hijackeresses?
Are there many female pirates to be found?
Overall, the play was kind of interesting but it didn’t have as much meat to it like the others. I do find it funny though that Euripides is center stage again in Aristophanes’ play.

I'll mostly reread these plays in a different translation at some point because I while I know it can be incredibly difficult to translate ancient texts into English, the stand in English words felt far too modern in my opinion. I want to see how similar and different the translations are from each other and whether David Barrett did the most accurate job.

Entertaining and moral plays.

I read the Frogs today. We're in the midst of a protracted war, Just like Athens 2400 years ago. As today, comedians held the mirror to society. Amid the scatological humor, Aristophanes dealt seriously with the nature of democracy and humanity. Very timely today.

This edition has useful prefaces and notes. Note #129: The evidence of slaves was valid only under torture.

my favourite quote from the thesmophoriazusae: “oh da nice firm titties, like-a da turnip”